Grammar schools

I was bright enough to pass the 11+ and attend a Grammar School but I was/am from a working class background; both my parents worked full-time and I was cared for by my Victorian (and very strict) grandmother. "Make do and mend" and "waste not want not" were very much golden rules of necessity for our family.

My teachers expected me to take my 'A' levels and then go on to University (which was a real achievement back then and not commonplace like now) but I had to leave at 16 and get a job to help my family financially. I left on the Friday and started full-time work on the following Monday. Being a Grammar school girl certainly helped me get a better job then, and I am very grateful for that.

I had to work hard at the Grammar School as the standards were initially very high, however, when our headmistress retired after 21 years of service, the replacement was appalling and the school went on a downward spiral. Many of the better teachers left and the handful of quality ones remaining did an excellent job against the odds in keeping most of us on track for a good education.

I'm not an expert on modern day education but I think that anything that encourages children to work hard to release their talents and put them on the correct path for success - be it academic or practical should be applauded.

I do think Grammar schools were excellent. I went to one at 16 and never looked back

Most of us on here will be of the age of those who were educated at either Grammar Schools or Secondary Modern Schools so we have the great advantage of knowing how both systems plus the various modifications worked. I'm 69 and when I left school I went to college and others trained to do various jobs which were appropriate at the time.
At that time the boys tended to go for trades as it the main opinion was that they were jobs for them. If they didn't go to Uni girls trained to be secretaries, comp,operators, hairdressers etc - girls jobs. I spent most of the 4th year at junior school in hospital or ill at home and I only went back to school 1 week before the 11 plus and I only got an interview where 3 very stern looking people proceeded to ask me questions but I was terrified and couldn't answer any of them for all I knew the answers so I didn't get through but I knew then that I would carry on at college and do my exams there which I did and then attained my degree through the OU. I had a wonderful education at a Secondsry Modern school which I know was a particularly good one.

The education system didn't need radical changing it just needed improving but nobody even thought of that. If they want to bring that system back then they must concentrate on getting the standards right.
Some children are not meant for continuous studying they are better at doing things or caring for people which doesn't make them less intelligent just different and they therefore need different training. There are not as many trades to need apprentices as technology has moved on so much the work place is very different so both education and training need to be different. Apart from that of course there are a lot more people for fewer jobs and there is no escaping that problem.

Some say that the new system is working but if it is why are we dropping further and further in the worlds table of education.p

I woz edjukated in a secondry modern skool, wots rong wiv that?

Grammer schools are and always will be for middle class/upper class people. I didn't fail at school or pass the 11 plus because I was dull, I didn't pass the eleven plus because I was from a deprived back ground and back then the 11 plus was not geared towards intellect it was geared toward social back ground and knowledge. I failed at school because school failed me. Jpoined the Army at 16, took an IQ test and was found to have an IQ of 151.. so instead of being a car mechanic as I wished, was placed in the Intelligence Corps.. Like most things, in an ideal world, Grammer schools are a good idea, but in reality they are selective and unfair. EG 2 boys, one from a rich background with lots of money to buy books and have tuition, other from an abusive deprived background who is rarely fed and fears for his physical well being at home... the rich boy already has a head start, and the poor feral child, will despite every effort be regarded as inferior to the rich child

I was educated in Scotland and at the time Scottish schools were either 'Senior Highs' or 'Junior Highs'. Senior High schools were the Scottish equivalent of English Grammar schools and Junior High schools were the Scottish equivalent of English secondary moderns. Only those who passed their '11 plus' were accepted for Senior High schools, and as I passed my '11 plus' that's where I was educated.

I'm in two minds about your question, johnwyth, as I know I got a first rate education at my school, but my younger brother, who went to what had been a Junior High because the '11 plus' had been scrapped by the time he was of age, didn't get anything like the education I had received.

Because of that, my husband and I paid for our own two children to go to an English Grammar school (by this time we weren't living in Scotland) as we wanted them to have as good an education as we had received, and the only way to do that was to send them to a fee paying Grammar. They both had to sit an entrance exam to be accepted by the school, as just being able to pay the fees was not enough to get accepted.

So, personally, I would like to see non fee paying Grammar schools return, as, whether you agree or not, all children have different abilities, and some are more able educationally than others. That is a fact of life, not a judgement. Being a little more educationally able doesn't make you a smarter or better person, nor will it make you any more successful in life, I know plenty of adults who are smart and successful but who were not educated at Grammar schools and I'm sure you do too.

I went to a public school from a council flat. The difference being that the school was catholic and I had an assisted place. I was shunned by some at the school because of my background, very friendly, but when their mother's found out I was from a council estate, there was little close contact with me socially. Indeed they were great friends with continental students who boarded rather than me. Echoes of remainers in Brexit! Same class, same prejudice!
Educationally, my school was not so far ahead of the local catholic comprehensives. I'd go as far as to say, that if I went to my local school, it wouldn't have made much difference, but I would have preferred to have gone there as most of my friends were there.
As a catholic child however, I didn't have a choice.

Grammar schools are not just for the middle classes.My bother went to a Grammar school after passing the 11 plus,my sister sat the 11 plus and went to secondary school ,I was not allowed to sit the 11 plus as I was a nervous child and my teacher probably new i wouldn't pass anyway.I went 1 yr. to secondary school in England and 3yrs to an Academy in Scotland which was the same as a secondary school as far as I could tell.
Outcome Brother a retail business man
Sister an office manager
Me special needs support worker.
All of us home owners paying our taxes and law abiding citizens,
Therefore who's to say who had the best education?
Today the education system needs some simplification and the ability to gide children in various directions ,success takes many forms .Increased value on less academic routes I feel would encourage children to view careers differently. Who's to say my job was any less important than my brother and sisters? In fact I would say it was a good deal more important it just happened to have a small salary and unfortunately income supposedly measures success.No I say happiness ,job satisfaction and contentment with yo.ur lot is good for me.

I attended a grammar school, taught in both grammar and comprehensive schools and find it horrendous that, without any research or evidence, the prime minister wants to bring back a system that failed the majority of our generation. The grammar school I taught in, for example, admitted about 25% of the local area boys and the rest went to three different secondary modern schools, all of which were larger than ours. Thus, three quarters went to a school which started with the premise you were failures for that was what you had in common. No pupil ever transferred to us from those schools and their curriculum was very different: more practical and less academic. In some ways they were prepared for working life better than we were, but only for work in trades and other manual work. That was the assumption about the boys made by the system; it was rigid and inflexible. Do we really want that form of selection at 11 back again?

Rather than creating boundaries teachers these days create friendships with pupils, it doesn't work

I never went to grammar school because I was not clever enough; but I have no jealousy about that, or those that went. I just went to one university, "the university of life". Let us have more grammar schools where those who have the luck to have more active brains can go forward and advance themselves and hopefully our country.









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