The future of the Labour party!

I voted labour but feel let down by the uncontrolled immigration. I now have a Polish family one side of me and a Romanian family on the other. They all work but its just not right. I don't believe or trust any one anymore and that includes the royals. They're just a bunch of scroungers. Our only hope is to leave the EU asap.

Definitely! Look where we are now -- governed by a party which got 29% of the electorate to vote for it, tries to tell us it has a mandate from the people, has had to scupper chunks of the manifesto on which it got that 29%, and has had to promise £1 billion of our taxes to one corner of the country, and scuttle the Good Friday Agreement, just to stagger on. And we await investigations into overspent and fraudulent canvassing.

Lionel, you and I have very similar working histories; I raise my farmworkers', or my bus drivers', cap to you if you have managed to earn and save enough to fear Labour's proposed taxes!

As for "scurrilous pair", almost every savvy politico I have heard talk of Corbyn has emphasised his honesty, principles, likeability and affability, if nothing else. I know less of McDonnell but when interviewed he is one of those rare politicians who listens to, and tries to address, the questions asked of him, and rarely resorts to personal attack.

Whereas, the sustained ad hominem attacks by the Tories and their supportive press barons, not to mention Labour's own Torylite PLP, are definitely worthy of the adjective.

Oh dear the censor has hacked my post to death.

Truth is hate when you hate the truth.

It certainly wasn't with Tony Blair as he is worth c£25m

It is a damning indictment that the last prime minister from a working-class background was a Conservative, John Major. It is also appalling that in spite of their constant bleating about inclusion and equality they are yet to elect a female leader. Somewhere in the labour party there are people who are truly representative of their traditional voters, but their voices are drowned out by two factions of elitists who hold all the positions of authority and power and are intent on keeping it that way.

What any Prime Minister does after he leaves Government is entirely up them.
I disagreed with Tony Blair going to War in Iraq 100%, but you cannot take away the the Achievements that was carried out under his government.

Which introduced the minimum wage for the first time
Funding for every school pupil double by 2008
Introduced the winter fuel payments, which has not increased since this this government came to power.
Free T.v Licences for the over 70's. Banned Fox Hunting. Free eye test for the over 60's. Free bus passes for the over 60's. Waiting times for operations halved. Free entry to National Museums and Galleries. Free nursery places for 3 and 4 years old. Low mortgage rates for the first time for some years. Devolved power to Scotland. Devolved Power to the Welsh Assembly assembly. Brought peace to Northern Ireland. Introduced Disability Rights Commission.. All workers to have the right to 4 weeks paid holiday. Introduced child tax credits.
Scrapped section 28 and brought in civil partnerships. 85,000 more nurses 32,000 more doctors as the N.H.S was on its knees. Brought more than a million homes up to standard.
I think they should have built more social housing. Cleanest rivers,beaches, drinking water and air since the Industrial revolution. Dads got 2 weeks paternity leave for the first time. A million pensioners lifted out of relative poverty. New Deal helped more than a million into work. Cut overall crime by 35%. I disagreed on many things which Labour did. one of my criticisms was bringing in the private sector to the N.H.S. as people were waiting for years for operations. Many of Labour supporters knew that if the Tories came to power they would have the chance to bring other private companies into the N.H.S which they are gradually doing now. It was the greedy bankers that finished the Labour Party out of government Gordon Brown had to prop the banks up with billions of pounds.

What do I think of Labour now I agree with many of the things Jeremy Corbyn stands for. He says he wants to do things differently, that's okay if your opposite number does the same, but if they don't it makes one look weak. He has a soft voice Nicola Sturgeon the leader of the S.N.P said she was told by an Actor to get help in projecting her voice which she did. Margaret Thatcher did. Jeremy being a man wouldn't take that advice I expect. I think Labour should have left him there and I think he would have stood down before 5 years, as he was overheard saying 'who would want to be a Prime Minister' he is a really nice guy but that isn't enough to be a leader.
Labour has some great experienced Members of Parliament 2 of the Party have come forward to challenge Jeremy, but the are not the best in the Party, perhaps they are biding their time.

Lionel, I think you should justify this. On what grounds do you say that CeltWitch runs away?

Why do you suggest Atlee?

And, by the way Leo, it's celtwitch...don't forget the 'witch.' Or, I will put a spell on you, and you could wake up 6ft tall!

Ah Lionel, your response won't do. It doesn't add to what I could see already - in any case different people tend to interpret the same facts in different ways. I feel that *you* have lit the blue touchpaper and run away.

Could be, but surely jousting has rules.

I agree with all you say winky. the Labour party have given us workers rights/working hours/safer conditions etc etc. Working people could still be being exploited like in so many other countries. The issue with Labour is they are in turmoil and should be a strong opposition

The greatest achievements of the Labour party listed by Winky are not from the recent past. They were generally established decades ago and this contributes to the party's struggle to find a strong identity and connect with voters of today. For me, they gave up their identity under Blair, as he saw this as necessary to make the party more appealing to middle England and win an election. During this time, although there were changes which helped the poorly paid, such as the introduction of the minimum wage, there were also policies more closely associated with Thatcher than the Labour Party such as continuing with the sale of council houses and the maintaining of lower taxes for the wealthy. From this point a split was created between New Labour and those with more traditional views. The current problems seem to have arisen as a consequence of the continued appointment of, largely, highly-educated, middle-class, middle-ground MPs into positions of authority at the expense of an increasingly dis-satisfied left wing minority. Rather than acknowledging this minority the parliamentary party largely ignored them along with the growing numbers of empowered members who supported them. The result is the election of Corbyn and the current impasse between the two factions and, regardless of who wins the upcoming leadership vote, until a conciliatory solution is found Labour will find it impossible to create an identity which will connect with many of its own members, let alone the electorate.

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My comment was rather longer than this, but the Silversurfers censor has chopped it to pieces.

Perhaps they should dissolve the Labour party and relaunch themselves as the Liberal Left,

The censor has done it again. it's a poor do when we can't say what we want.

I would rather drink with Socrates!