University versus Work Experience

I have one daughter who is starting a funded PHd in September, (this is not a brag before I continue), she is academically minded and fascinated with her subject. She is also academically 'gifted' ( an awful word which is used in schools) which unless you embrace it could actually be a curse socially. She did not fit in with any of her peer group at University for her bachelors degree, aside from the international students and would have had a hard time if it were not for those friends. She is also teetotal and studied hard, to her the whole work ethic was vitally important.
Why am I telling you this? It is because it has become expected for young people to go to university, it has become a right of passage, which it should not be unless the young person is very devoted and very studious. They seem to need a first in most subjects , and in some , like the sciences they need further degrees including a masters in order to get a position and a job in their field. Some subjects require a PHd just for a research position. Unknown to most , they do also need some kind of work experience which is often omitted from a CV, this can be gleaned by volunteering work. This is saying that a degree alone is no guarantee of getting a job place, unless they stand out over and above every other candidate with a first degree .They also need to be pushy and happy to network with the best in their field and get themselves noticed to get on in academia. It is certainly NO easy ride. I can only speak of my daughter's experiences ,of course, in her subject field, at the moment she has a paid research assistant position before starting her PHd in September, but everything is SO competitive, she had to volunteer to get into her chosen lab before applying for her current (1 year contract) position and get noticed as being more than capable! That position also had 180+ applicants and she had to still go through the tough interview process.
On the other side of the coin, I have two grand daughters (out of 6 ) who are going into child care and catering and hospitality, they are also very happy with their choices and have very good prospects of employment (we always will need good food and childcare). They both go to college and have experience in the workplace too. They are not academic and struggled to get the GCSE's to go onto A level, all being said they could not wait to leave school.
My advice is, unless a young person is actually happy to work , write, study and go the extra mile, the whole concept of Uni is a waste of 3 long years and a long time paying off a huge debt to boot with often further degrees with further costs to get into a paid position.

I think it largely depends on what the course is and where you'll be studying it. If you can get into a Russell Group university studying a course that has some vocational value then it's definitely worth going to university and running up a debt. Today's students should have a pretty clear career path in mind when they attend university. Back in the day, I studied Philosophy at university on a full grant, which was a wonderful mind-expanding experience. Trouble was, when I looked for a job employers were (a) completely ignorant of the subject, or (b) completely dismissive of the subject. As much as I love Philosophy I wouldn't recommend anybody doing that kind of degree nowadays, unless you're doing PPE at Oxford.

Out of 33 in class only my daughter is doing work related to her degree.

Apprenticeship is first choice as send you to college to gain certificates

Work experiance maybe depends on who and where

Lots of good posts here. My personal opinion is that unless one is doing neurosurgery, real-world experience is of far more practical value. I think the whole education system needs a revamp. By the time students are graduating from post-secondary programs, most of what they learned is obsolete anyway. It's become a multi-billion dollar industry.

I don't think that's fair for students or society. Okay I'm a Canadian, so I'll probably get a bunch of flack for being a socialist sympathizer, but my view is that things like education and insurance should be structured to cover the costs of providing service rather than providing multi-million dollar mansions with swimming pools and private jets for CEOs,

As a mother of four and a retired teacher I would say it depends very much on the individual child. Going to uni is not just about studying. It's about growing up and maturing, learning to live away from home and to develop yourself as an individual. Different young people can benefit from this others just seem to grow up and mature wherever they land.

If your child is already fairly independent and knows how to stand their ground then the workplace could be a far better place to begin their life's journey especially as many companies will fund them to study part time if they are lucky. Certainly three years in the workplace is a big advantage over those leaving uni with barely any work experience.

Then there is an alternative route. My youngest chose to work first, to discover what he didn't want to do in life and then went to uni. For all this generation's moaning they have the most options. LOL

My experience in higher education is that university provides you with a qualification to set you on a professional career. The university you attend will more than likely determine whether you are going for a practical, hands on career, or a profession such as law, academia etc. I went to university after being made redundant and obtained a degree in Physics. I went to work for an international company in which the career path was one which I did not want to pursue, so I left and completed a PhD. It was at this point when I realised that getting higher qualifications may not be the best thing to do. I found that I was too overqualified for the jobs I wanted to do, employers think that you will get bored and leave. I am now working in a university as a technician, which I am happy to do because it is very practical. The point I am trying to make is if you want to fly high, then go for the highest education you can achieve, if you are happy with doing practical work, then only achieve the level needed for the job, and maybe a bit more to give you an edge over rivals. I have 4 children and this is the advice I gave them. I personally think that apprenticeships maybe the way to go. I will add though that student numbers are dropping so in a few years it maybe worth looking at universities. However, I do work in a university so I need as many students as possible to keep my job ; )

Hello Sally,

If teenagers know what they want to do, then they should look into how to achieve it. Do they need a degree or not? Are there alternative routes -- can they train on the job, for instance? I've read of graduates taking non-graduate level jobs. This puts non-graduates at a disadvantage. Of course, if a school leaver chooses not to go to university straight after school and regrets it, he or she can still go later on. Their work experience may count for something when they finally get back into the jobs market.

So, in answer to your question -- it depends.

A lot of the so-called students today act as though they still belong in the primary school playground. Not being bright enough or mature enough to obtain full time employment prior to university, all that's changed on leaving is their age.

Having spent the last three years partying, drinking and laying in bed, when they enter the real world the world of work, they seem to be under the impression employers should be lining up to offer them a top grade job.

Often students graduate and find it difficult to obtain worthwhile employment because they weren't bright enough to be at university in the first place. These days universities are run like businesses and happy to take their fees from anyone foolish enough to pay them.

Living in a city with three universities where 48% of the houses are occupied by students it's not difficult to notice that not all students are there to be educated. Staying out until 3 AM and laying in bed until midday, puts education down the list of priorities.

Students are offered courses according to their abilities and entry qualifications. The less bright get offered lower grade courses. This gives them more time for partying and laying in bed as less time is required for studying. They end up with a worthless qualification that few employers are interested in.

The intelligent get offered a more intensive course where they attend more lectures and are expected to study in their spare time, and then some find it hard to keep up. Obviously they have less time for the social life but leave with a good degree that leads to worthwhile employment.

The first group would be better off finding themselves a job, but at a young age and away from home, partying and laying in bed would seem the better option.

I think if they want to all kids should have the chance to go to University and I also thin it should be free. The only issue with this is that many kids used to just do any old course and doss about in it and now they have to pay it makes them think more about that decision

Asia teacher and all. Interesting, but I must say that I am appalled at way United Kingdom has been used + abused the last 40 years or so. So much wrong doing by successive governments, outside interference and waste. Eighty percent of a population used to do the the mainstream work that was, anyone who could be given the chance of University was lucky. Now we have a situation of many graduates and nowhere to go apart from some emigration. Not everyone wants to emigrate. Shame on those who have set up these ideas and run out of money to into the bargain, causing the situation we are all grumbling about. Why has it been left to 2016 for ordinary people to voice their discontent. We are only two small islands. I don't know where any of this will lead too in our islands and most of us have offspring that we leave behind.

Having graduaread and post grad degrees and working in FE I see the pros and cons of higher ed. I did post grad P/T distance which was tough but it meant I could work and gain CPD qualifications. These days employers want employability which new graduates don't have unless they do an internship or similar often without remuneration. Not everone should go to uni some of the degrees areally worthless and others require academic mindset. My daughter owes £36000 and her sibling earns 1.5 times as much having on the job training with no debt. Simples!!

My daughter is restarting another uni course having done a year on a course she did not enjoy. By the time she has finished she will owe about £56000 which is mad! Son did one year and did not enjoy so left and got a job. He has done really well for himself, but work now want him to do a MBA course, so uni will be on the cards again.

Talking to the younger generation at work, even they know that University Degrees mean nothing. Everyone has got one. PLUS depending on their extra-curricula activities (not University courses) many of their companions are getting higher paid jobs. Spending power depends on experience NOT University degrees. I agree.

I certainly would not do the degree I did - Modern Languages. Very hard work 36 hours of contact time each week and then the work to do at home from that. No credible job at the end and had to do a raft of prof qualifications in a financial field before I got a "graduate" job. Although fluent in 3 languages I have never used them in my work. Now English is the second language of the world so no point in learning other languages now. Kids are pushed into the wrong subjects by teachers who are really just into a bit of self preservation - do my subject and I keep my job for at least another year! Not good career planning.
Graduates come in all shapes and sizes these days. Some degrees are clearly not worth the paper they are written on - I've managed so called graduates who read the Sun, go to bingo are generally legless each weekend - not an intellectual brain cell amongst them. No doubt there are brighter offerings from certain other unis.
So I conclude that many "graduates" would be better off in jobs at 18. Many other would be graduates would be better getting a job with professional training and doing a degree part-time at home when that is all done with so graduating at 24 rather than 21. So no debt and a job to boot.