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Junior Doctors Strike - your views

Do not support the proposed strike, at all - and would like to hear more from those poor people who will have their long awaited operations and appointments cancelled. Not one person on the news this morning, apart from Jeremy Hunt, mentioned how awful this strike will be for the people they are supposed to be caring for.


Created By on 01/09/2016

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midblue252
1st Sep 2016 20:17:25
2
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Doctors are deserving of a fair remuneration for their work. However I do believe that greed can take over as they, in my opinion are paid well. I think the issue is the long and unsociable hours they are expected to work.
Response from jeanmark made on 1st Sep 2016 21:09:45
I agree midblue252 and I believe the long and unsociable hours is the main issue that is causing the problem in relation to the change in contracts. Talking with the doctors I know (at various levels) this isn't about money but working conditions.
Response from BrumEJ43 Original Poster made on 2nd Sep 2016 07:50:50
So I am thinking if the British public could be persuaded to be ill only between the hours of 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 pm and only Monday to Friday then the Junior Doctors hours could be cut, then they wouldn't have to work unsociable hours. Unfortunately when a person is ill and needs hospitalisation then that illness must be serious, and also unfortunately illnesses don't always act to order. Junior Doctors are using the sick as a pawn in their fight against the Government. I look forward to hearing just one Junior Doctor saying anything compassionate about sick patients.
Response from jeanmark made on 2nd Sep 2016 10:13:50
The problem is Lionel, it is junior doctors that are there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week from Registrar downwards so they already work unsocial hours. My understanding is this is about the government changing the definition of unsocial hours and working conditions in general. However, I'm not sure the whole issue is about money, I think it is wider but it has gone on for so long the issues become increasingly blurred.
Response from jeanmark made on 2nd Sep 2016 10:20:51
Sorry Lionel, blaming you again. BrumEJ43, the above comments are in response to your post.
monzaV
12th Apr 2018 01:14:16
0
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Yes the doctors work massively long hours for pretty poor wages Jeremy Hunt turns up for very few of the meetings he is supposed to attend and is the wealthiest member of the cabinet rest my case.
monzaV
7th Oct 2017 17:55:41
2
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Jeremy Hunt is the most wealthy member of the Tory front bench, I would like to see him do one week in an NHS hospital working the hours that junior doctors do.
[deleted]
2nd Sep 2016 23:23:18 (Last activity: 3rd Sep 2016 12:10:23)
1
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[deleted]
Response from Wilf made on 2nd Sep 2016 23:47:26
I couldn't agree more Lionel. Health is lifes most important feature-followed by freedom. We should spend more on the NHS not less and if we need to raise taxes. We just need to ensure its more efficient. Stopping paying be beautocratic managers so much would be a start. Stopping paying so much to middlemen with medicines would be another. Paying for a doctor if you are ill is a no brainer (pardon the pun) Sack Jeremy Hunt-get a sensible minister in sort the issues out and move on
Response from [deleted] made on 3rd Sep 2016 12:10:23
[deleted]
celtwitch
3rd Sep 2016 11:09:09
0
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I think the strike is just another signpost on the road to the eventual privatisation of the NHS.
The NHS has always been the 'flagship' of the welfare state but in recent years it has been put under immense pressure by having to treat smokers, drinkers, drug users, foreign health tourists and asylum seekers who bring 'exotic' diseases with the.
Clearly this trend cannot be allowed to continue or the beloved service will collapse dramatically with catastrophic implications for patient care.
Pay the juniors what they are worth, the NHS cannot function without them; train BRITISH young people to become doctors, rather than concentrating on foreign students who pay higher fees.
Levy a small charge to see a GP, say £5.00. Charge patients £10.00 for a minor surgery and £25.00 for major surgery and charge all patients for their meals while in hospital.
Sort out the procurement scandal, where the NHS contracts to pay significantly higher prices for drugs, consumables and everyday essentials.
Weed out unnecessary managers and administrators...and DO NOT then re-employ them as 'consultants.'
The NHS and I are the same age, I have often wondered, who will die first?
celtwitch
2nd Sep 2016 14:06:23
1
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When the Hippocratic oath is trumped by strike action, we can be sure that all is not well with the NHS.
[deleted]
1st Sep 2016 21:52:04 (Last activity: 2nd Sep 2016 12:24:31)
1
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[deleted]
Response from Suzanne511 made on 1st Sep 2016 22:08:21
Working hours and pay for junior doctors

The new contract says that doctors can work no more than 72 hours over seven consecutive days, down from 91 hours in the current contract. They should also only work an average of 48 hours per week, unless they opt out of the Working Time Regulations in which case the maximum is 56 hours. This is down from a current cap of 56 hours.

The new contract also reduces the number of long days a doctor can be asked to work from seven to five and the number of consecutive nights they can work from seven to four. According to the BMA, the old contracts allowed junior doctors to take a break every four hours for 30 minutes. The new contract allows one 30-minute break after five hours and then another after nine hours.

The new contracts also introduce a new “guardian of safe working hours”. This will be someone within a hospital or organisation responsible for ensuring that rules on safe working hours are followed.

The "average junior doctor " earns around 37K with new contracts guaranteeing an additional 10%-11% to their basic pay. Plus 37%, yes 37% on top of their basic hourly rate for work between 9pm and 7am. 8% on top of all this IF they are on call.
Response from Suzanne511 made on 1st Sep 2016 23:14:27
My comments are made from being an insider. And doctors have always worked long hours, as many of us do, it's not a 7.5 hour day career with 60 minutes for lunch and breaks every 4 hours. In fact few of us work like that. Unfortunately patients only see one side, the healing, especially if a family member has had their life saved. The government, shame their not tougher, with slow drip feed of doctors being seen as gods, and trust me, when you see them on the wards talking about not wanting to do a weekend because there is some party to go to - YES, this happens. Patients don't see this. It's simple; if you want to do a 36 hour week and no weekends, don't become a doctor, work in an office 9-5.

I won't comment anymore on this subject as I have work to do, aa I only drop by once in a while, but happy debating to all of you.
Response from jeanmark made on 2nd Sep 2016 12:24:31
Well said Lionel.
spilly
2nd Sep 2016 10:11:07
3
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I agree, enough is enough. Presumably they know what the hours and pay are when they begin their training/career. This seems to be becoming more of a political battle than anything else. I recently returned from Spain where I lived for a number of years and their state hospitals are run by private companies (many German) and they run like clockwork. Just a thought !
jeanmark
1st Sep 2016 13:10:09 (Last activity: 1st Sep 2016 20:48:55)
-2
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But then Jeremy Hunt is causing the problem and he will make sure you all think he is in the right. Doctors do want to care for patients but the Government are making it increasingly more difficult for them to do that safely. I hate to think what a 5 day strike will do to their patients and their cause but how else are they going to ensure they are heard?
Response from BrumEJ43 Original Poster made on 1st Sep 2016 20:29:58
No-one can blame Jeremy Hunt for the fact that Junior doctors will be withdrawing their services to the sick, injured, the elderly, children, babies, - it is their choice. Yes I hate to think and am extremely sad what a 5 day strike will do to poor patients, - I personally know of people this will be a huge problem. I feel we must stop putting the Junior Doctors on a pedestal, - they are no ministering angels if this is how they choose to behave. I have lost any respect I had for this section of the medical profession because of their actions. Now several weeks of strikes are planned. What next.
Response from jeanmark made on 1st Sep 2016 20:48:55
I don't think I am putting junior doctors on a pedestal, far from it, but I am aware the proposed changes to their contract have a strong possibility of putting patients safety at risk. Jeremy Hunt will not have to live with the knowledge he may have harmed or killed a patient, they will. I don't support a 5 day strike but am at a loss to know how else they can make their concerns known, they have to look at the long term consequences of these changes.

Do people honestly believe this will only effect junior doctors? Hospitals could not function without other health care workers, doctors do not work in isolation. What happens when changes are introduced to other health care workers who are less able to defend themselves? Why are the changes only being made to doctors in England, if Jeremy Hunt really is concerned about the NHS why not make changes to doctors across the NHS?
Suzanne511
1st Sep 2016 13:47:14 (Last activity: 1st Sep 2016 18:47:01)
5
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Unfortunately many people make comments without being in the FULL picture of the contract, the huge amount of money these junior doctors get paid, their huge pensions waiting for them at the end of the line, that many of us in the real world love. Having worked in the medical profession for over 20 years and how doctors once looked at their profession, how junior doctors back in the 60's, 70's and 80's actually committed to the profession accepted certain " climbing the ladder" to become a senior consultant meant you worked weekends, they didn't complain, they felt it was part of the wonderful privilege to become a doctor and what it meant for the people they wanted to help. Not any longer, junior doctors look upon their work as being a FIVE day a week job, one where they are now willing to blackmail those who are dependent on them. Read the contract that was agreed upon, and not just depend on social media or the infantile, self absorbed 27% who are going to cause this mayhem and perhaps lives in due course. Not all junior doctors are supporting this, it's a minority, but as usual it's the minority that rules. Jeremy Hunt is not to blame, he is quite right the NHS should be a 7 day service. If you don't want to work in rotation, take your turn in weekend work, with a HUGE pay reward for doing so, then don't become a doctor. People are not ill to order Mon-Fri. Any doctor who strikes is no different to someone hitting out physically when they feel they're losing an argument or can't get their own way - the only way to debate and discuss in an adult fashion, not like some tantrum, stamping child is to do so over the table and show the general public their real worth. Appalling to do this to the general public!
Response from BrumEJ43 Original Poster made on 1st Sep 2016 15:34:32
I agree with every word you have posted Suzanne511, - on reading what the contract offered I can only think the militant Junior Doctors are out to try and destroy the NHS, - but doing this by punishing the sick, - wow how low can they sink.
Response from jeanmark made on 1st Sep 2016 18:47:01
I think you may find a number of people are aware of the full picture relating to current issues and are therefore well able to comment. Junior doctors do work weekends and always have, there has always been a 24 hour service, just not for routine outpatient appointments and planned surgery. The changes Jeremy Hunt wants to impose relate to England only, why does he not include the rest of the UK, its the same NHS?

I think it is difficult to try and compare medical practice with the 60's, 70's and 80's and I would not want to return to those days. Health care is so much more fast paced then even 10 years ago that there is no comparison. At what level did you work as a doctor and what speciality did you work in?

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